Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Should Smogon have a redo vote for Terastallization in case it was a big fluke?

No disrespect to Terastallization, I'm a firm believer that No Action is a huge fluke and robs Smogon of truly accomplishing what their capable of. I've spent the last few hours in pure disbelief and it just doesn't make sense to me. I've spent the entirety of Gen 9 watching Tera Fire Chi-Yu sweep with Overheat, it's just not fair.

If Action loses again I will face that Terastallization deserves to stay in the tier, but I am just 100% sure it was a fluke and does a big disservice to the Gen 9 OU metagame and Smogon.
 
Should Smogon have a redo vote for Terastallization in case it was a big fluke?

No disrespect to Terastallization, I'm a firm believer that No Action is a huge fluke and robs Smogon of truly accomplishing what their capable of. I've spent the last few days in pure disbelief and it just doesn't make sense to me. I've spent the entirety of Gen 9 watching Chi-Yu sweep with Overheat, it's just not fair.

If Action loses again I will face that Terastallization deserves to stay in the tier, but I am just 100% sure it was a fluke and does a big disservice to the Gen 9 OU metagame and Smogon.
Not for a while no.
Yes the vote was close, but guess what will happen if action is taken on a retest? Most likely, the people who voted for no action will claim that the result was a fluke, that they won the initial vote and this outcome was unfair. There's nothing wrong with the voting process, so it would be a disservice to smogon to redo it right now. People would miss the fact voting had reopened, and some would boycott and it would not be an accurate representation of community opinion

Also, Chi-yu is pretty commonly considered a broken regardless of Tera, so citing that as the main reason Tera is unfair isn't that convincing of an arguement
 

YNM

formerly yNot Mence
is a Tiering Contributor
I think Terastalization is a good mechanic, because it gives your Pokemon a pretty hat, and I think there should be more hat-based mechanics in videogames
Literally the dumbest design ever, they could have made some cool ass crystal mons and Game Freak said "nah fuck that shit, hat"? Wtf???
 
Literally the dumbest design ever, they could have made some cool ass crystal mons and Game Freak said "nah fuck that shit, hat"? Wtf???
The logic behind it is it needs to be easily telegraphed, so that anyone watching can immediately identify what type it with with no chance of mistaking it. The hats provide that, with distinct shapes
 
Wow, I took a look at the results, the req requirements, and how everything is perceived... Just... Wow.

I was tempted to try and get reqs, but I never had the faith in my own abilities nor did I think me grinding for reqs would be worth it. But missing out on a supermajority by 0.75% is an understandable salt factory that should be looked at tbh. 80% GXE with a minimum set number of games in OU is an extremely high bar for some folk, and having No Action on PS Tera is rough.

However, on the flip side of this, those of us who play in-game and not on Showdown... The vote doesn't really do anything unless you specifically match up against one another online. So it's kind of a weird, murky thing.

I feel bad for those who grinded out the reqs and lost by that abysmally small margin. I'm of the camp that action should've been taken, but that's mostly because I hate running into Tera Normal ESpeed/Boomburst (coming from someone using a Boomburst Noivern/Toxtricity), Tera Grass Funny Fish, and Tera Water Annihilape. At the same time, though... My poor Hera would be far less useful because of it, due to not being able to catch Volc/Moth off guard.

I guess all I can really do now is watch and see where things go from here for the OU tier.
 

YNM

formerly yNot Mence
is a Tiering Contributor
The logic behind it is it needs to be easily telegraphed, so that anyone watching can immediately identify what type it with with no chance of mistaking it. The hats provide that, with distinct shapes
Nah cap, give me 10 bucks and I'll come up with a better design than that.
 
...no? Literally the equivalent of making a presidential election recount "in case it was a fluke." The only way anything would change is if you didn't properly announce it and some number of no-action voters miss the second announcement.
Its a copypasta from when the predators beat the black hawks in the Stanley cup playoffs like 7 years ago. Blackhawks got swept and someone made that post in response about replaying the series
 
Nah cap, give me 10 bucks and I'll come up with a better design than that.
I'm not going to pay you... But I'm curious. What design could you think of that
- Is applicable to every Pokemon
- Is visually distinct enough to be instantly recognisable by anyone, colourblind, poor vision, etc.
- Looks aesthetically interesting.

There might well be a better solution, but I personally can't think of one.
 
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Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Aw man, I missed participating in the clown fiesta when it was fresh. It's hilarious how the people bitching about the result could have changed the outcome if they bothered to get reqs due to how close it was.

I'm legit surprised No Action was the final result. I honestly believed Reveal Tera at Team Preview possibly even Ban would end up winning. Would have preferred Reveal, if I'm being honest. Regardless, I'm excited to see how the meta continues to develop now that Tera is (probably) here to stay for the foreseeable future.
 
IMO tera is a lesser threat in how unenjoyable gen 9 OU is. I made melmetal suspect reqs right before gen 9 released, but I just quit the game after the first couple of weeks in gen 9, because like many others in this thread, I absolutely hated it.


I only started playing in gen 7 ou right before zygarde was banned, and gen 8 had some pretty rough patches to play, but some of the mons introduced this gen are just awful to play with or against.


Abilities like purifying salt and good as gold are just so infuriating to put on already decent pokemon, and it just feels cheap. Against ID garg you must preserve a choice trick or some ludicrously strong attacker and hope they don't have the right tera to counter that, because you cant even status it and salt cure is a crazy strong move. Not to mention gholdengo blocking an entire category of moves and blocking all methods of harzad removal other than tidy up.


Chi yu and lesser so chien pao are basically unprecedented wallbreakers to be a part of an OU metagame, rage fist is an extremely dumb move, I could go on. The point is I think if the council and player base makes the right bans, we can hopefully evaluate tera in a less toxic context and then make a proper decision then.


Completely forgot about stupid shed tail, that move is so dumb on a fast regen mon like cyclizar
 
Not for a while no.
Yes the vote was close, but guess what will happen if action is taken on a retest? Most likely, the people who voted for no action will claim that the result was a fluke, that they won the initial vote and this outcome was unfair. There's nothing wrong with the voting process, so it would be a disservice to smogon to redo it right now. People would miss the fact voting had reopened, and some would boycott and it would not be an accurate representation of community opinion

Also, Chi-yu is pretty commonly considered a broken regardless of Tera, so citing that as the main reason Tera is unfair isn't that convincing of an arguement
that's a hockey copypasta altered to fit the current situation
 
I do think that this decision is probably the most historic in Smogon history. It has been very cool to watch as a spectator to the process.

Finch has the right idea in regards to the situation in that the best course of action is to go to the next course of business for OU and let all this be re-tested later, as there are arguably far more pressing matters to attend to.
I agree with your wider points about the discourse throughout this suspect process and that the above would be the best course of action. However, considering the historic and ground-breaking nature of this decision, it is natural for people to discuss it for a while. We are just monkeys that learned to play Pokemon on computers after all. So let's agree to not get too worked up at people taking the time to process this in... a variety of healthy and unhealthy ways.

Speaking of pressing matters though, here is my list of Pokemon I have seen raised for a suspect/ban.
  1. Chi-Yu: I will be surprised if this isn't the first thing to be tested, and the first to be booted from OU. Don't need to say much on this.

  2. Annihilape: I do think that with Tera this mon is broken, and will also be tested. Yes it struggles against some more offensive teams, but it also kind of just invalidates a large chunk of teams just by existing. Bulk up taunt in particular is just absurd to deal with sometimes.

  3. Cyclizar: I think this is worth a suspect (over shed tail). It will interesting to see if this mon's utility is enough to be deemed broken or uncompetitive. I'm not sure if we have ever had a pokemon in OU banned purely for its utility.

  4. Chien-Pao: While I do think it is far weaker than its fish special counterpart, imo it's broken too, and should go accordingly.

  5. Gholdengo: I honestly agree that this should be suspected at least. However, I think the only case for its ban is 'unhealthy due to its influence on hazard play', so my initial opinion is that I don't think it should be banned.

  6. Garganacl: Honestly, I can see it. This mon forces so much progress, is stupid bulky, and can single-handedly win games it has no business winning. Not a high priority right now either way.

  7. Dragonite: I understood calls for this when Dkiller was running rampant. Now, I think the meta has adapted pretty well. Not a priority.

  8. Espathra: I never understood the call for this thing to be banned in the past, I still don't now.
In summary, 1-4 I'm sure will be looked at as a priority. 5-6 should be considered by people smarter than I. 7-8 are not a priority, and honestly, probably not worthy of a suspect initially.

Just my humble opinion.

80% GXE with a minimum set number of games in OU is an extremely high bar for some folk, and having No Action on PS Tera is rough.
It's really not that high a bar for what the criteria is designed to do, prove that you have the chops to know what you are talking about and voting on. Informed decision making is pretty critical to the health of smogon's tiering design. I'm saying this as a shit player myself, I don't make reqs, it's that simple.
 
Interesting results. I guess the most surprising thing is that Team Preview Tera won by a landslide. Based on the talk I was hearing here and on Showdown, seemed like ban was the most popular decision, but it is nice to see this isn't the case.

I wasn't able to get reqs on multiple alts, but it was fun trying. If anything else it was a humbling lesson to get schooled by some other players, try out a few different stratgies, and win later. When I stopped caring about winning every game, I had a lot more fun playing, discovering some new tech which I try out for myself later or try or devise counterplay too via moveset swaps and what not. Pretty fun experience and looking forward to trying again during the next suspect.
 
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